Good morning . . .

429-22GSb. Making disciples… Mission Statement

Opens with a female delegate campaigning for the ordination of women. Says Ellen White is an example. Make women ordination a reality in this Session. Smattering of applause.

Motion to call previous question from brother in Mexico. supports the motion… voting motion to call passes 1397 votes

A delegate points out that some people give a long speech and then call the question, cutting off discussion for anyone behind them. I agree, this seems to be a self-serving practice, albeit a legal one.

Next item. Tests of fellowship rests with the General Conference . . . seems like the same people are speaking all the time…

Mandla speaking .. wants tests of fellowship changed to test of membership.

Jaanus Kogerman - make it clearer, replace fellowship with membership, moves to refer back

Gerson worries that lunchtime may interfere with refering back. Jaanus’ motion passes. It will be referred back. GC moderators get used to the rubber stamp process and don’t always like it when delegates question the amendments in a way that takes time.

brother from Africa reminds us that we derive our authority from the Bible..

Next item. Discipline of a member . . .

Tekjon Naibaho . . . no audio . . .

Zippora .. last line (18) should include word must in disciplinary hearing proceedings…

Stephan Giulani - calls (predictably) for the question… this is the sixth time for this individual to cut off debate by calling for the question. Questions are flying around…is this guy a plant?….if we have opportunity, we will interview him to learn his motives…. voting . . . (it will pass, in fine rubber stamp mode…)

motion passed with 1396 votes.

Vote to amend the Church Manual with item 432… motion Fundamental right of the Church Member passes 1364 votes (97%).

Sabbath keeping item… 416-22GS

Michael Nixon (VP for Inclusion and diversity at Andrews) calls for aligning Sabbath with social justice causes. Telling LGBTQ people that they are made in the image of God…etc…and assorted woke endeavors… Quoted from Isaiah 58…

Lady from Iceland . the Sabbath brought me to this church..disturbed that the Church wants to be the conscience for its members. The Holy Spirit and other faithful members teach us to model proper sabbathkeeping. We should not be conscience for others. voting…. passed

Next item. Add recommendation of premarital counseling to church manual. I agree with this. Premarital counseling reduces likelihood of divorce by 30%. Biblical counseling is most effective, more then secular methods. I do not believe that Adventists have a lock on this….

Delegate recommends adding man and woman to the term couple…good

Karen Bazan - young people are struggling with identity….its important that we define couple and man and woman.

Zambian delegate — add timeline for dating and marriage. Not a great idea in my opinion.

Ericksom Mercelin - Bible is our sole source of faith…sola scriptura….are the amendments based on the Bible? Are these amendments above the Bible?

Gerson .. taking notes….2.5 pages in CM about family and marriage…he did not address the need to define marriage as between man and woman. Billy Biaggi mentioned man and woman…Gerson failed to do so.

18 speakers waiting . . .

Josias Flores…likes wording of professionally trained…calls for compassion on young people…

Rumbidzai - not only adding paragraph but enforcing it.. is there funding for counseling? Or is this an unfunded mandate? Supports recommendation.

Beniah - important topic. Should have timeline, and supports amendment

Michael Nixon - reducing divorce is good. Divorce is tragic…should also have local grief counselors for divorce in church…as painful as it is, its unavoidable (divorce is unavoidable? or the pain)??…..

Geoffery Dotou…also consider marital needs after marriage….i support this motion.

Frederick .. happy about motion…in Africa and Kenya, we do not have many professional counselors…. pastors must do the job…

Stephan Giuliani - calls the question . . .that’s 8 times…. voting…. the question passes 1292 95.1 %

main motion….voting . . . .

(anecdotal insertion) during Annual Council where this was voted, it was suggested that only an Adventist counselor should be used. Although not a voting member, I mentioned to a couple delegates that that was a bad assumption. Some SDA counselors are fine people, but two of the best counselors in the nation are a Mennonite and a Jew…. just being Adventist does not make you faithful to the Bible or inclined to use biblical principles in counseling…

Motion passes

Next item. Finding new ways to reach diverse cultures by forming new mission groups.. This could be abused by progressives in the church…in my judgment.

Gerson says not change the message but change strategies and methods.

Ngoy - should be more inclusive…

Flaviano SECC - motion to reconsider….is there a second?… no second for the SECC guy. Boom.

Hilde Huru, Norway - had the privilege of many refugees from other parts of the world. focus to mission on all people. Change from non christian religions to non christian….we need help from GC. We don’t want to seem discriminatory to people from outside. We need WO (again).

Tim Standish - says the SECC guy’s motion was seconded…. Parlimentarian ruled to continue.

David Trim (Ben Franklin) . . .church structure is crucial…

Paul Bhaggien - in favor of motion BUT…. flexible approaches to sharing Christ (this has potential for abuse) rigid prescription would kill the mission of the church…. what is the mission of the church?

Giuliani….actually speaking to the motion without calling the question…..moves to refer…

Monday Benson - supports motion….mission of the church has been diluted…evangelism is a command from Christ…to believers and non believers alike…

point of order . .is motion to refer back something to be seconded and actd on… Parlimentarian says the chair has the right to send items to standing committee and continue discussion and stop the discussion - when there is a standing committee.

Max Mackenzie Cook - likes the motion…various expressions of ministry…are needed…

Bhaju Shresta - couldn’t under stand him preaching…

Boyce Mkhize - question… why are we continuing discussion after a motion to refer back was done?… Answer is it will go to committee for re-evaluation and be brought back again. Additional suggestions will go to the committee.

Delegate from Central California calls the question. Voting…1280 (98%) It will be brought back in the afternoon.. Next.

440-22gs Church board cannot grant letters. Must be done by church. Church must be informed by no discussion over it. This is a minor item in my opinion. Voting….

Passed by . . .

Lunchtime….

Afternoon:

The GC wants to make a statement on the Bible.

One delegate said we need to live the Bible, not shirk from quoting it on areas where it is in conflict with culture. Hear hear.

brother Singh . . .every church claims to get their practice from the Bible…let us cling to it wholeheartedly

Karl Archer …. motion to refer back seconded. discussion ensues….

Vote on referring it back…..

650 to refer back

449 no

WOW…

Item 125…. Statement of confidence in writings of Ellen White… if this one passes and the Bible was referred back, that raises grave issues, imo….

Terry Johnson … there is a need for awareness of the prophetic writings…no guidance on proper use of the writings. Do we really need guidance from the GC on this…?

Anthony Bosman…who affirmed one delegate’s mention of LGBTQ this morning…we have critics…concerned about one line….inspired guide to the Bible…change guide to guidance…

Clinton Wahlen .. . if we refer back to committee will it come back in time for us to look at it again…? Chair is not sure..recommends voting against referral..

Delegate supports the motion…

Delegate from Germany (Mrs. Kramp) supports resolution…

Delegate raises a question, if we accept the statement on the SOP and refer back the statement on the Bible, does that not send an alarming message regarding our priorities? Motion to refer back…

Voting…to refer back statement of confidence on SOP… 1052 yes 148 no. Voting…..

yes 507
no 723

Back to the main motion…

Brett Townhend . . .I belive EGW would vote to refer this back. Is the Bible sufficient? Does the Bible need supplementing?

Steve Goods…against the motion. Goes against what EGW herself taught…that the Bible is sufficient for life, faith and truth. we must not place her on equal footing with Scripture…yada yada yada

Vasilii Stafaniv…why are some delegates speaking against one of of our fundamental beliefs…both Bible and EGW speak about literal days of creation…if we reject literal days of creation, we reject the Law of God…and ultimately reject our faith. Some people are trying to put their ideas in these statements…speaking in favor of beliefs and motion.

Johannes Bochmann … concerned about voting on statement of EGW after referring back the statement on the Bible. Moves to table until a resolution on the Bible is passed. Motion is made and seconded…

For the first time this week, the huge dome was deathly silent…. it was surreal…

Voting time. To table statement on SOP….simple majority is needed…

642 YES

619 NO

Motion carries. Closest vote yet.

Stele says if someone who motioned to refer the Bible back reverses the motion, they could bring the Bible back….

Delegate…this tradition to reaffirm SOP time to time…I wish it would cease…speaker shut down by chair. Not a point of order.

delegate moves to rescind his vote to refer Bible back…seconded…

discussion…point of order

Bosman…how do we know how people voted? Chair: Trust.

Ron Carlson…seeks to make point of order…he was wrong. Parlimentarian corrected him.

Vote on stopping debate on reconsider referring the Bible Statement back to committee……………..

1101 yes

137 no

to cease debate. Now motion to reconsider motion to refer..

Stephan Giulliani….(the Bot) rules of order page 10…what caused the chair to allow this motion…

Delegate..reminds that this session is recorded and can be reviewed in the future….Mbwana was somewhat testy in his response to this delegate..

Voting…to reconsider the referral of the motion, Resolution on the Holy Bible (Item 124).

Yes 815

No 488

Motion passes…now motion to refer….death by a thousand paper cuts…

Dan Houghton…we make statements on many national events…but this is one that really matters. I support reversing the motion to refer…

Clinton Wahlen…supports the biblical statement

Bochmann…in favor of motion…questions work of committees…it is our responsibility to discuss and vote…we should not rush things because we are worried about time…. supports motion to refer back

Kyle Allen, “please clarify what this motion means”…good point of order…

Clement Joseph …we are wasting time…let us vote on the main motion..

Kathy Profitt…point of order…confusion in the room…if we vote what will happen…if we vote to refer back will it come back in 3 years?

Daniel Giang…Stele gave the impression that ADCOM could meet during the Session to bring it back. ADCOM…huh.

Stele: it would take a miracle for it to come back. As a German myself, I observe that Stele’s bedside manner is profundly 1930’s German :)

Delegate motions to stop debate (call question)…

Voting…cease debate…25th motion to call the question….

YES 1166
No 111

Motion carries. Debate ceases…

Now a vote on the refer the motion…

Phil Mills…if we vote yes what are we voting for? If we vote no what are we voting for..? Answer.. “If you vote no we will proceed to discuss the document”…. tangled web of bureaucracy…

Voting… I am glad Jesus didn’t make the early church go through this process in the Upper Room…

Motion to refer FAILS 427 to 911

Mark Finley….stands in support of the statement…the statement by BRI gives us the fundamentals…

Delegate…the Bible is crucial to us

Lindi Schwartz…stands in support of this statement…the Bible says the earth was created in seven literal days… Amen

Gabriel Mula Mbwa….calls for question….

voting the Biblical Statement….

1234 yes

77 no

Biblical Statement passes

Hudson - GC - calls for prayer.

Motion to take the SOP Statement off the table…

1117 yes

246 no

Motion passes

Debate of SOP Statement ensues…

Delegate calls the question. Seconded…. Voting…on ceasing debate..

YES 1224
NO 125

motion passes. Now main motion… voting…

YES 1189
NO 212

Statement on SOP Passes

Next item…BRI issued a book on Hermeneutics. Biblical Hermeneutics, and Adventist Response.

This is needed during a time when the Bible is relativized by liberals among us… videos are available on the BRI YouTube Channel. Frank Hasel gave a short but helpful presentation.

menial items……trying to stay interested (and awake)

AFTER SUPPER

There was a term limit item voted. I returned to the press box late so I don’t yet know what the term limits are for.. Will fill in details later…

Niklas Rantanen…we don’t have enough young adults in leadership positions… a lamentation..